I can't believe it

[last_dance_rodeo]

July 19, 2007
Bush Outlaws All War Protest In United States

In one of his most chilling moves to date against his own citizens, the American War Leader has issued a sweeping order this week outlawing all forms of protest against the Iraq war. 

President Bush enacted into US law an ‘Executive Order’ on July 17th titled “Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq”, http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0070717-3.html and which says: 

”By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, as amended (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.)(IEEPA), the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.)(NEA), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, 

I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, find that, due to the unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States posed by acts of violence threatening the peace and stability of Iraq and undermining efforts to promote economic reconstruction and political reform in Iraq and to provide humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people, it is in the interests of the United States to take additional steps with respect to the national emergency declared in Executive Order 13303 of May 22, 2003, and expanded in Executive Order 13315 of August 28, 2003, and relied upon for additional steps taken in Executive Order 13350 of July 29, 2004, and Executive Order 13364 of November 29, 2004.” 


[Little Bird]

Doesn't this go against your constitution? Free speech and all?

[last_dance_rodeo]

exactly, i just got into a big argument with my grandmother who is a huge bush supporter, i wish she'd wake the f up

[007]

Pal, no offense meant, but I wish you'd wake the hell up! THe US Constitution forbids freeedom of speech when liable and slander laws are invovled, and death threats (NUMEROUS!) made on George W. Bush. So, freedom of speech is an implied law which has it's ties ot it, any high school kid would know this! ANd also the freedom of speech can be severly limited in the times of war, AS IT NOW WAS JUST DEMONSTRATED! HOORAH, BUSH!

Remember, you all may not know this, but there are people on this forum who appreciate the things he's done nad how he's held up under possibly the worst circumstances. I friggin served under Bush, wish I still did! I served in the military under BUsh, my father served under George H Walker Bush, and I've met the man! (Not the father, the son). I friggin ate dinner with him when he came down to Camp Lejeune! He's about hte nicest guy in teh world, and when comparing him to presidents like Calvin Coolidge, Nixon, and FDR in many cases, he is s good man and a decent president. No, he's not perfect, but you try ot do his job! I predict you'll fail.

Implied law means that it works for most situations. If yo uscream out 'FIRE!' in a theatere, you'll be arrested if your'e apprehended! WHY!?!?!?!? IT'S ILLEGAL, distrubing of the peace, well, so is this. READ A GOVERNEMTN BOOK! You can get them for $30 at any college bookstore or any decent chain bookstore.

It is covering an implied law (how do you fellow Americans NOT know this? Did you not study Goverment in school? HOw do we allow citizens to live ehre without knowing the full udnerstanding of the Bil of Rights?)
I would gladly walk into the jaws of the Cerebus himself for the President, no matter who it was. It is a position ot be respected. You want to bash the man, bash former President's like Carter( who needed his cabinet to tie his shoes), or FDR (invalid, although not impotent enough to cheat on his wife in the next room from her on their honeymoon and a man who imprisoned a whole race in AMerica during WWII, bet you didn't know that!) or, hell, bash Nixon, who Harry Truman called 'a shifty eyed goddamn liar wh if he had to stick to the turth, he wouldn't say much!'

Last time I checked this was a Jewel Kilcher Forum, not a Senate meeting! ALhthough now it might turn into that. And this message is for all of you, I may be a *****, I may be your definition of a crock of sh!t (I know, I'm bold, but I like it) but the fact is that you should not knock the President, he has a job that holds this nation together, and I challenge someone to serve under him or to try his job. I'm so tired of this Bush-bashing. DOn't knock it until you've done it! And if you don't like Bush, who's your idea of a good president....CLinton! I'll tear that cabinet and 'stint' apart in my next post!

[Veilingmeat]

Sorry dude...i just cant look at the serious side of politics!!! whoever it is


I'll just be the 'sideshow bob' and dig certain ppl from time to time, Salad Fingers for president!

[last_dance_rodeo]

Below me...
http://www.alternet.org/rights/57689/

[007]

Originally Posted by last_dance_rodeo

Below me...
http://www.alternet.org/rights/57689/

Originally Posted by last_dance_rodeo

Below me...
http://www.alternet.org/rights/57689/

First off, no thank you. Not for a million dollars! I won't 'Below you', and you. Maybe you can have Rothschild over to do that for you, huh? Or LaMagna, or how about Gore. Did you know not as a moderator that you broke your own rules of the forum? I'm sure you'll edit it out so no one will see it, but reread your own rules and I've quoted you so you'll have to edit my post, as well...I'm sure you will. Of course I'm certain the issue will be tossed out with the bathwater since your'e a Moderator and we all but just regular members here. But watch what happens when a member breaks one of those rules.

Rule Number 6. DON'T Make personal attacks on other users by making libellous, defamatory, obscene, pornographic, threatening, abusive or harassing comments. This includes harassment to members via pm. Any harassment to members is an immediate banning without warning.

Rule Number 10 Pt. B. DON'T Use vulgar or obscene language or images. (Family Guy video on sodomy!)

Side Note on rules above:
'To clarify, please DON'T post any material unsuitable to family viewing onto it. Have respect for your fellow members.
Any inappropriate behaviour from members will not be tolerated. The Jewel Kilcher Forum is designed to be a community of people who share a common love and endorsement to Jewel's music.'

---------------------------------------------------------

Is this how the Moderators are allowed to behave, by spitting sexual remarks at someone? Hmm, just goes to show you....maybe I was right.


SO, I was almost certain there was a rule against political debate, but since there is not and I have the rules saved on a Flash drive, this way the spyware couldn't get it from tmy computer or from My Docs that I'm encountering every time I log onto the forum, I've always wondered why it took fifteen minutes to post one message and why it takes so long to log in. I have Norton and McAfee, by the way.

SO, back to politics. If you believe Rotschild or actualy can consider LaMagna as president, why don't you say goodbye to hundreds of thousands of lives in Iraq due to the tyrannical regime that will put themselves in place after we leave. It is our job as President Lyndo nJohnson said in 1965 along with the Great Society, we 'are to be the world's police force.' Didn't you know that?!

How do Americans get by without knowing what has shaped their contries. I'm sure if you ask Kiera, who should be chiming in on this right about now, that she knows the history of Ireland and the Laws within. I'm also farily certain that Veilinmeat would know British laws, gov't, and history, and I know Crawfy would know Scotts Laws and how htey were made, I would be willing to bet most Europeans here would know the laws in their own nations. WHy don't you update yourself on it and then come back and talk to me, okay, Pumpkin?

[Little Bird]

Originally Posted by 007

SO, I was almost certain there was a rule against political debate, but since there is not and I have the rules saved on a Flash drive, this way the spyware couldn't get it from tmy computer or from My Docs that I'm encountering every time I log onto the forum, I've always wondered why it took fifteen minutes to post one message and why it takes so long to log in. I have Norton and McAfee, by the way.

Check your facts before you go making accusations like that. We have NO AFFILIATION/ASSOCIATION with ANY SPYWARE or VIRUSES or even any form of ADVERTISING etc. WE CANNOT SEE ANYTHING ON YOUR COMPUTER. WE CANNOT ACCESS YOUR COMPUTER AND WE CANNOT AND WOULD NOT ATTEMPT TO DO ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE.

I take HIGH offence that you have said this and hope you know that could be constude as slanderous. The problems you are having are your own. There are NO outstanding issues of the sort on this forum and I appeal to ALL MEMBERS reading this to come forward if you too are experiencing the same problems that 007 has mentioned above. Besides 007, you told me you didn't have those problems anymore.

Good for you having Norton or McAfee...you should have firewall and virus protection. I'll be the first to say that but in no way should you be implying that we are penetrating those defences as we are not, would not and don't have the means anyway. Your paranoia is very much misplaced on this theory!

With regards to rule breaking...I will take that up behind the scenes and deal with it.

We feel that there is no need to ban political discussion. It should not be censored nor banned and in fact, in many ways, should be discussed however; maturely.

I can see from both sides why offence may have been felt and so there are 2 of you in this. I think it would be best if you both just agreed to disagree and steer clear from political discussions with each other in future if you both can't do it affectively or with respect for one another.

[007]

I'm tired of hearing someone who never served telling me the man I served under the man, my father served under his father and Reagan. WHen people give their lives for the safety of the American people, we don't want to hear our commander-in-chief's name slandered. If you served and have a beef, then fine i understand, not someone who probably doesn't even have a Registered Voters card. Funny how this all got turned around on me even though I merely pointed out the rules that were broken, a moderator who broke the rules, if anything, a person who should be a shining example of these rules. Hey, I didn't tell anyone to go and blow me! Is it always going to be this way because he's a Moderator? Kiera, just when I was under the incorrect assumption that we had established some form of rapport and dare I say it, common courtesy, this is spit back in my face!

As for slander, do not make me bring up things I've read about not only myself but other users from several people on forum (I also have them saved on a Flash drive). Listen, I'm such a complete pain in the ass that I know it's difficult to deal with me because I find little loopholes in teh net, and WIDEN them. And Kiera, you may, in general ways, you may have no paranoia and be at fine standing with the world and be square, but I'm not and you can't change that or who I am. When you keep mentioning my paranoia, again, you can't change that. You know quite a lot about me, Kiera, and you know why I am the way I am. WHy do I find myself constantly curbing my tongue and forced into a completely difference persona just to please the admin/mods, yet it has done nothing beneficial for me whatsoever! So, Kiera, if my paranoia is overwhelming, just know it helps me sleep better at night.

Firstly, I mentioned the problems were less frequent to you personally, than, say, two months ago. All I know is that for me to upload this thread took thriteen tries! THIRTEEN! I mentioned this to you in a PM that the problems were les frequent but STILL THERE. I have it saved also on a flash drive.

And you are right, this problem clearly is my mine and no one elses, even though you've said one other member has the same difficulties becuase I've received no assistance in this problem and it only occurs onthe JKF. There has been complete non-compliance so far as I know. NOthing has changed until you updated new software, Kiera, and the problem still to this day is not fixed. SO I guess I am alone when it comes to this and totally incapable of fixing it. I had so many problems loggin on that I emailed you several ties asked had I been banned, due ot the fact that I couldn't even log in. You repsonded that in lesser terms that I did still have an account and did still have access, and that I needed to stop asking you because it was a complete waste of your time and you were tired of responding. And not picking anyones bones here, but I find it extraordinarily convenient that I have accounts on other VBulletin forum and I have no problems on those forums. It's not on any forum but this one, and I have accounts on other VBulletin forums just like htis one.

It takes up to two to six minutes to load a page nad I have broadband which works fine on every other website, my internet connection can not be pawned off as the problem. All I know is I've had my subtitle under my user name read 'Miserable users', and also I've had messages pop up and say 'THis forum requires you way 800 seconds between posts. Please refresh the page and wait (x amount of ) seconds.' whether it be 723 or 506, I still have to wait on the desired time to do it again. And frankly I'm so tired of lolligagging around (bad word to choose with LDR's previous comment), and not being able to upload anything on a forum that I used to really enjoy myself here on (past tense).

It takes oftentimes 13, 14, or 15 times to post, and oftentimes I send PM's that 'magically' never get there. Yet I have no problem on any other VBulletin forum. And you, Kiera, have said before you cannnot figure out what it is. Personally, I came onto this forum to research a musical artist who wowed me one night on American Idol, and I could roam freely and now I cannot even post without having an act of Parliament rolled over 15 or more times. I also have reason to believe that my PMs are being read by others becuase I have noticed knowledge of information only shared in PMs to others that some people know (several intimate details about my life and health problems, and service record information). And not that it matters because you all STILL do know my own true identity (as I've had people repeatedly attempt to trace down the figure whom you believe is me, have you all never heard of smoke and mirrors or what we call 'red flag' ops?) Either which way, you still try to find me and track me down through false cornering and such, but all you have is a false name that you already had. It is SICKENING and SAD to know that I've had such problems that I need to take this many precautions.

And also I figured I'd mention it by now, I have not been linked to hte correct pages since I"ve had these problems. I have, lets use an example, I've clickedo nteh 'I am currently listening to ....' thread nad been take nto the Jewel News section, or I clicked on the 'Monty Python thread' and been taken to threads apparently from the moderator's lounge area, l;ike the 'An Interesting New Member' thread, or the Absence of Fear area (which I am not granted access to thanks to the moderators/admin's decision) This I cannot be held responsible for, so I'm not hacking into your lounge, but I get directed there and it is annoying. So, half the time the damned page doens't load nad the other half the time I'm sent to the wrong area!

It's so annoying never being directly tracked to the right topic or thread. Meanwhile, all I log on for is to basically argue that I"m not whatever you all think I am. Aside from hearing hte wrath which will be coming soon, I just wnt my forum to work right and normal like eveyrone else here is granted. SInce no one has nay problems and hasn't spoken up in the 'Help' folder or here, I ahve reason to believe that I am not being helped i nthe slightest and hte total non-compliance must be for apathy or the lack of my character's ill mannerisms.

If anybody knows how to help me get rid of this issue aside from leaving this forum (which is up in the air acitvely for sometime now), please advise.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sorry for saying this whole tirade. I've aksed for help in at least fifty PM's (in which I have saved on my Flahs Drive and CAN PRODUCE!)to different people and received no help. WHo's wrong here? ALl I want to do is to be able ot enjoy the forum, just like you all. In fact, I"ve had to register at the World Jewel Forum (the demigods, the blue nazi's on wheels, the meanies!) just so i can keep up with Jewel News and such, becuase I cannot load any of it here in any reasonable amount of time.

But, it is written, if the evil spirit drapeth the tiger with claws, Brahman, provided wings, for the dove .thus spake, the SUuer Guru!

You know, I've asked for help form the admin since the date of the forum hack in late March, yet I've recieved no help whatsoever. I actually got so tired of asking on of the bigwigs here, and I knew this individualist had something aginst me, yet i had hardly even spoken to this person. I waned to knw why this person had taken a set agaisnt me andin hsort tempered form I asked the person why they had something against me, some beef, something inthe way of me, not exactly in harsh terms but terms not thee most tactful. The person's response was that they were goin to ban me beause Isent them a rude letter.

As for this prolbem, it is a teadious problem, I'll be sending in a complaint and inquiry to VBulletin so maybe they will take over and help me out here since no one has gotten anything done on forum, and since VBulletin is the sever, they woudl knwo about this. And the clear notion of the fact that I don't get on well with the admin/mod squad (at my own fault, most of it was my fault and i brought it upon myself), yet receive no word on how to fix this nor any help, is appolling, and frankly this whole situaiton is.

[007]

It's been five months since i"ve had these forum hacking problems attack my acounts. FIve months and NO ONE has lifted a finger, not one problem solved.

So, if I sound jaded in my last message I'm officially willing to be dugbehind the car and thrashed. But if you only wanted to enjoy a forum and have fun yet EVERY MODERATOR AND ADMINSITARATOR will basically have nothing to do with you or your problem (even the ones I don't know and haven't spoken with), then if you were in my shoes,what owuld you do?

Upset or angry doesn't dsscribe how I feel on this matter. After being totally ignored and skipped over, and walked upon, while you spend hours rewriting messages because you cannot post them, I think the word would be ignored. If you know a good word to describe this, tell me, because I don't.

[007]

Even though I basically do nothing on this forum but argue and apologize, I'm going to compelte the vicious cycle again. I apologize for using the term 'spyware', but under the circumstances, i don't know of a nameto call it and the actions fit the definition of the term.

I OFFICIALLY RECANT AND APOLOGIZE. I didn't mena to offend you with that term, and I didn't mean to hold things up with that. But you wee being ignored and not helped, what would you believe iwth hte circumstances described above? People know about what you PM to others and not only that, you just have utterly no control on what page you land on sometimes when you use the forum. SOmetimes it works alright, but sometimes it completely sends you somewhere else.

All I want is to use the forum teh way it should be but no one is willing to help. So I can either leave a place that i used to love, or tolerate it wihtout the help of the admin/mods. what would you all do?

I really didn't wnat to offend you, Kiera. Like Isaid, I was under teh assumption that we had established some form of rapport or common speaking terms. Now that I know I'm wrong, I'll just clam up and tkae the forum any way I can.

[Little Bird]

Jones - I would like to point out several VERY important things.

First of all, how dare you say you've been ignored. Up until the last couple of pm's, I have been extremely accommodating to you with pming and emailing you back whenever you have contacted me. You're 2 most recent pm's were not responded to as they were you asking my personal questions that were not forum related that I did not wish to answer. I am fully entitled not to answer personal questions to someone I don't know.

Second of all and very important too i might add...I CANNOT VIEW PM'S THAT ARE SENT TO ANYONE ELSE. I CAN ONLY VIEW PM'S SENT TO ME AND ME ALONE! I know exactly who fed you this bunch of lies and we've even completely changed softwqare since we were last accused WRONGLY of this offence. We were using IPB software then, we now use vBulletin. We value our member's privacy and CANNOT BREAK THAT PRIVACY NOR WOULD WE WISH TO! Once again, I recommend you get your facts straight before making accustions.



Thirdly, you mention having a lot of stuff on flash drive to back up a lot of what you're claiming. I'd love to see this proof and to see if can be considered proof

Either which way, you still try to find me and track me down through false cornering and such, but all you have is a false name that you already had. It is SICKENING and SAD to know that I've had such problems that I need to take this many precautions.

In relation to this. We aren't trying to track you down. There was a time when you first joined the forum that you claimed to be in France and pm'd me daily with a whole bunch of lies about what you were up to. I don't really care about that but I could tell from your IP address that you were in the US and not in France at all. I confronted you on that and you came clean. I really don't like being lied to. I could have said that out in the open straight away to everyone on the forum but I didn't coz there was no point. Don't feel special! I regularly checked IP's back then in order to check for multiple users. I happened to check yours in case you were a multiple user and it turned out everything you said about being in France was a lie. Not only that, you then tried to rejoin the forum under a new user ID and pretend to be someone else. Again, my usual IP checks caught that and as standard that I do with ALL MEMBERS who try to join under another username, I reminded you that this was against the rules and that I would merge the accounts...which I did. Since that time, I haven't had any need nor desire to check your ip's. I don't really care where in the world you are.

If anyone was ever trying to deceive anyone in the whole charade, it has been you. It's about time you started to come clean with us.

I really couldn't care what your real identity is. If you can't be honest with yourself about who you are, and make that clear to everyone else, how can you expect to be respected and treated in an equally honest and respectful way? If you're not willing to do that, then no-one can take you seriously or understand where you're coming from.

[kelane6]

Just for the record I think Bush is an idiot and I did not vote for him, but my side didn't win so we are stuck with him for now. Hopefully in the next election Americans can keep their heads out of their asses and do a proper vote this time.

That said I didn't read this as a ban of all forms of protest against the war. It seems more of a punishment against those that support people using violence to stop the change to iraq government. It doesn't say anything about those that speak against bush or the war, or anyone who has a demonstration against either. It seems more directed against anyone supporting terrorist or helping hide or finiance them. Anyone supporting the violence against others should face some punishment. Karma is a bitch so someday they & Bush will get theirs!

[JewelWiki]

[kjm030584]

Originally Posted by vansciver

<3 Love it!